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Post by Patches on Mar 14, 2004 0:04:33 GMT -5
So, given the current manga chapters, this seems like the obligatory question to be asking.
And the thing is, I'm torn between all four options. ^_^*
Most of the time when major characters die in literature, they come to some sort of epiphany about their life shortly before they buy the farm. Kagura's realized the threat to her existence, but is still pushing ahead, and she's just finished saying goodbye to those she cares about, in her own little way. Plus, authors tend to shift the focus to the doomed character right before their death, which is what's happening now. So, going by a lot of other things I've watched/read, Kagura's right on the way to six feet under.
Then again, this is Takahashi, who is not exactly known for killing off main characters. However, Inuyasha is a lot different from her earlier works, and there's already been a heckuva lot more death in it than her other works combined. So... it's hard to tell. What do you all think?
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Kuro
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Post by Kuro on Mar 14, 2004 6:47:05 GMT -5
If Kagura dies, that will probably be THE most dramatic thing in Inuyasha. Even mroeso than Kikyou's ..um... re-death. I still remember feeling a bit shocked when I read that particular part of the manga, but for some reason, it was a "she'll be back" type of feeling for me. But that was more because I'd felt there was still too MUCH left to resolve with Kikyou's story at the time, so I figured the story wasn't going to let her die permanently. It just didn't feel right. The thing about Kagura's fate is that... well, like you mentioned... it just feels like if anything were to happen to her, it's going to happen now, and (as poorly worded as this is going to sound) her death would work out. Story-wise, that is. It's not that there's nothing else she can do or tell in the story, but it's that her story COULD end and not feel as incomplete as Kikyou's did when she was killed. But the thing that's stopped me from voting yes on this is that, well, like you said. It's Takahashi. NONE of the main characters in the story have been destroyed. I'd be utterly shocked if she'd do that now. I agree that Inuyasha has been one of the most violent manga she's made, but still, on the whole, it's felt so optimistic story in regards to the fates of her characters. But then again, I dunno. It's not like she's given hints as to what's going to happen to the characters in the end either way. For all we know, she could make Kagome wake up and it would all be a dream. (As depressing as that would be to me... ) I actually don't think Sesshoumaru will revive her, I think he'll step in and SAVE her in the final moments. *shrugs* But my track record for predicting how the story progresses has been less than impressive, from the get-go. XD About half a year ago, I also predicted that they were all going to die in Inu-papa's grave. <_>
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Post by fflewddur on Mar 14, 2004 13:39:26 GMT -5
But the thing that's stopped me from voting yes on this is that, well, like you said. It's Takahashi. NONE of the main characters in the story have been destroyed. I'd be utterly shocked if she'd do that now. I agree that Inuyasha has been one of the most violent manga she's made, but still, on the whole, it's felt so optimistic story in regards to the fates of her characters. In addition to that, Takahashi is also infamous for her twists -- she may pull her audience into anticipating one future event and yank them in surprise when something unprecedented happens. Although it's not easily comparable to Inuyasha's violent genre, take her previous manga, Ranma 1/2, for this example. One dramatic panel on one page, then a complete goofy conclusional twist on the other. I'm not suggesting that Kagura will meet some random hiliarious end (that'd be odd), but rather that she may use this technique again -- after all, Kagura's death has been foreshadowed since her first betrayal of Naraku in the early years of the manga chapters. Finally reaching her death would be a predictable thing! Who knows what events she will bring to this character before she dies or, if Kagura does not meet her end, what she may go through before the end of the story. As for what I'm rooting for, it is difficult to tell -- on one hand, her death would fit the foreshadowing in the story, on the other hand, I'm trying to keep options open if Takahashi throws in a curve ball. Hey, guess we'll find out, ne? ^^
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echolalia
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Post by echolalia on Mar 14, 2004 14:09:13 GMT -5
But the thing that's stopped me from voting yes on this is that, well, like you said. It's Takahashi. NONE of the main characters in the story have been destroyed. I'd be utterly shocked if she'd do that now. I agree that Inuyasha has been one of the most violent manga she's made, but still, on the whole, it's felt so optimistic story in regards to the fates of her characters. I've always thought this, too. I talk with a vaguely pessimistic circle who seem to have all but convinced themselves that Inuyasha at least will very probably die in the end. I just can't agree with them... this story just feels like it's about overcoming adversity to me, not being crushed by it. I've read this book recently, "The Writer's Journey", wherein the author purports that all (good) stories rely on archetypes. One is the threshold guardian, who blocks the hero's path, and must be either defeated or persuaded into sympathising with the hero, at which point they can evolve into another archetype, the ally. Shippou, Miroku, and Sango all started out as threshold guardians, I think, and Kagura and the other incarnations were as well. For a long time Kagura has been something else entirely, becoming more than a side character and something of a hero herself. As I was reading the last chapter, I thought she was starting to turn into an ally. So, I don't see her dying. Suffering, sure, but not dying. At least not until Inuyasha-tachi get to the point where they'd feel bad about losing her. >=) I predict that she, as well as Sesshoumaru and Kikyou, will be instrumental in defeating Naraku. ::authoritative nod::
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Kuro
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Post by Kuro on Mar 14, 2004 16:13:21 GMT -5
Agreed! There's three things that need to go in order for Naraku to go down. The baby is one. I've always been thinking that Kohaku and Kagura would be the two to take the baby out. Although... where's Kohaku? Kouga's GOT to come into play somwhere before the end, too... he's got the Shikon shards. Maybe he'll get in another fight with Hakudoushi and in some freak turn of events, WILLINGLY give up his shards to Kagome to help her out. As for who's going to take Hakudoushi out... I'm thinking the last string of events will go FAST. Maybe even disappointingly fast. But Inuyasha-tachi will take down Hakudoushi and Naraku in the final battle. Hakudoushi's almost become more of a baddie than Naraku himself. He's T3h Naraku MINI-ME!! Sesshoumaru and Kikyou will be there... Sesshoumaru helps to take down Hakudoushi. And Kikyou, Kagome, and Inuyasha will be the three to take down Naraku. ! Now watch that be so far from what really happens that I'll have to point and laugh and myself and go, "WHAT THE HECK?!!" XD
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therhoda
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Post by therhoda on Mar 14, 2004 19:50:46 GMT -5
Ok, now before people start thinking on this the question of where and how to kill that baby. There is also no way to figure out where she fits. I am not so sure that any thing will survive the whole finally of this story. For most of us western mind types we are expecting a happy ending just because. We are trained for it and so with out any promoting we expect it, no demand it. Sigh I am still trying to figure out what and where we are going in this bloody journey. but I don't think any of us will be happy if the bad guys don't get it in the end. I just hope we aren't shocked at the cost. My 2 cents on where it is going.
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echolalia
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Post by echolalia on Mar 15, 2004 3:13:48 GMT -5
Kouga's GOT to come into play somwhere before the end, too... Oh yeah... durrr. Of course Kouga will be there, too. =) He's a lot creepier, for one. Even just in the manga, without that voice. There's something especially chilling about a ruthless murderer under the age of 12. Sometime later, therhoda added:Well, it's hard to look outside one's cultural bias, but even knowing that, I think we're getting this optimistic feeling based on more than just our Western expectations for the perfect Hollywood ending. Compare Inuyasha to Spike from Cowboy Bebop, for example. They both have suffered greatly, been betrayed, have grown mistrustful and jaded, and are constantly assaulted with life-threatening struggles. Inuyasha meets the challenges head on and overcomes them, becoming stronger in the process. Spike is also never shy about risking his life for what he feels is necessary, but he doesn't grow from the experience; He's never rewarded with new skills or new confidence. Hell, he usually gets gipped out of his bounty, even, and in the end is worse for his effort: still broke, hungry, and occasionally seriously injured. Now, I wanted Spike to live happily ever after, and that may very well be my Western bias, but I didn't *expect* him to. The doubt... Will he escape the syndicate? Will he settle down with Julia, or get over her and find happiness with someone else (that chick from the movie would be my first vote. Dayamn she was hot!)? Will he even survive in the end? The doubt was built into the very structure of the story. With Inuyasha, of course, similar questions arise. We have to feel that the characters are threatened, facing serious challenges, or we'll get bored. But Takahashi has built hope into her story. As I said before, with each challenge they face, they become stronger, better friends, better fighters. They've even almost killed Naraku, who is, after all THE Big Baddie, on, what? at least three occasions. Each time, he only *just* managed to escape. Although he's grown stronger, they have, too, and they do have the power to destroy him -Why else would he bother putting his heart in another body? So, no, I don't think this expectation of a happy ending is just a product of our culture. I think it is very reasonable to expect that at least the IY5 will be healthy and sound at the end of it. They may be suffering, they may be phsyically and emotionally scarred, they may be stained forever by the hardships they faced, but they will be able to live through and find some measure of happiness again. There is, though, the difference between a Western and a Japanese happy ending. By Western reckoning, all the baddies get what they deserve, all the borderline baddies see the error of their ways and reform, and all the good guys pair up and live happily ever after. I don't know enough about Japanese literary traditions to comment on what a Japanese happy ending might be, but I do have *some* experience with the beasts, and because of that experience, I have one terrible, terrible fear: An Escaflowne ending. I expect that any American who's seen Escaflowne probably had the same, profound, "WTF?!" reaction to the ending and can understand both why I'm dreading it and trying to prepare myself for it.
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COSniper
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Post by COSniper on Mar 15, 2004 18:11:46 GMT -5
Now, I wanted Spike to live happily ever after, and that may very well be my Western bias, but I didn't *expect* him to. The doubt... Will he escape the syndicate? Will he settle down with Julia, or get over her and find happiness with someone else (that chick from the movie would be my first vote. Dayamn she was hot!)? Will he even survive in the end? The doubt was built into the very structure of the story. Exactly what I was thinking...even the Cowboy Bebop part .... freaky....Ok, we can all hope that the ending will be a happy one, if its not theres going to be a Takahashi mutiny. Were all waiting for Naraku and his "mini me" to bite the dust, Inuyahsa ang Kagome to hook up along with Miroku and Sango (maybe a double wedding) but thats waht will most likely happen. The suspense Takahashi is putting in the series is how will they accomplish this goal? We know the end but what is the series of events that get us there? If you view it that way the series makes sense. The series shows no sign of ending, but it looks as if Naraku might be done for in the near future... how long can he hang on?Theyve fund all but one shikon shard, the jewel being somewhat of a countdown for us. Once its completed theres the fantastic series ending with Inuyasha unleashing some new all powerful and cool looking super attack that iobliterates Naraku and Hakadoshi. Then on to the double wedding... So if the ending is almost here we all need to wonder if theres another twist coming in. Will some new monster emerge and replace Narakus reign of terror like in Movie 2 (somewhat)? ...Ok, now back to the question, and a lot more typing...I agree with all the sign of Kaguras upcoming death, but not that she will die totally. As much as I want Kikyo to die and burn in hell she will come back in some ill fated turn of events bent on destroying Kagome and taking Inuyasha back. So Kagura wont be dying, or if she des not for too long (Sess has got the cool reviving sword and is starting to become a softy) Naraku will probibly kill Kagura in the series finale, but when all the awesome fighting is done Sess will come over and revive Kagura. She'll finaly be free and can go off and do whatever she wants. ...Thats my views on the subject, quote from them as you please... I expect that any American who's seen Escaflowne probably had the same, profound, "WTF?!" reaction to the ending and can understand both why I'm dreading it and trying to prepare myself for it. What was the ending of Escaflowne? Ive heard of the name, but never saw the series or the ending... COSniper[/color]
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Post by Patches on Mar 15, 2004 18:37:15 GMT -5
What was the ending of Escaflowne? Ive heard of the name, but never saw the series or the ending... Let's just say that if Inuyasha ended like Escaflowne, it would go something like this: Inuyasha: "Kagome, I just realized that I love you." Kagome: "And I've just realized that I love you, too. Here, you can have the Shikon no Tama." Inuyasha: "Hey, thanks! Let's hug." Kagome: "I really wish I could stay in the Sengoku Jidai with you. There's really no reason why I can't." Inuyasha: "Yeah, well, bye." Kagome: "Yeah, bye." (goes into the well, then destroys it on the other side, for no particular reason). "Ah, life is good."
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COSniper
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Post by COSniper on Mar 15, 2004 19:44:53 GMT -5
I see your point...
That ending would suck! So lets hope Inuyasha doesnt have an Escaflowne ending.
But sadly that could be true...Inuyahsa staying in his time and Kagome going to her time and in Kagome leaving the shikon in the fuedal time shes now cut off.
Depressing thought isnt it?
COSniper[/color]
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echolalia
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Post by echolalia on Mar 15, 2004 20:27:04 GMT -5
Let's just say that if Inuyasha ended like Escaflowne, it would go something like this: Inuyasha: "Kagome, I just realized that I love you." Kagome: "And I've just realized that I love you, too. Here, you can have the Shikon no Tama." Inuyasha: "Hey, thanks! Let's hug." Kagome: "I really wish I could stay in the Sengoku Jidai with you. There's really no reason why I can't." Inuyasha: "Yeah, well, bye." Kagome: "Yeah, bye." (goes into the well, then destroys it on the other side, for no particular reason). "Ah, life is good." ::nod nod:: *Exactly.* Honestly, I'd almost prefer heartbreak, pathos, even main character death to just "Well, bye" and wistful smiles. =P And the worst part about the ending to Escaflowne is that everything about the anime suggested it was *supposed* to be the best, happiest ending! ::sigh::
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Post by fflewddur on Mar 20, 2004 8:05:48 GMT -5
Well, Naraku mentioned something about wanting Kagura to do "one more task," now with the Inuyasha-tachi lead and engaged to Naraku, is Kagura's purpose finally outlived itself? Guess we'll have to wait, in the meantime Hakudoushi continues to smugly lurk behind her unsuspecting back . . .
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Kuro
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Post by Kuro on Mar 21, 2004 2:23:41 GMT -5
Well, Naraku mentioned something about wanting Kagura to do "one more task," now with the Inuyasha-tachi lead and engaged to Naraku, is Kagura's purpose finally outlived itself?
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Post by Patches on Mar 21, 2004 11:31:15 GMT -5
XD Gotta love replies that consist of nothing but an image. Sometimes... a picture really is worth a thousand words.
::loves Kuro in a platonic manner::
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Post by fflewddur on Mar 21, 2004 11:52:45 GMT -5
lol! ^^ *sets image to desktop*
Hehe, about that: what could Naraku use fabric softener for with all those spikes and armor? Does he have a pair of soft, fluffy undies underneath all of that stuff?
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