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Post by milareppa on Sept 10, 2009 17:01:56 GMT -5
I have a feeling that she's made the connection between Sesshoumaru's armour and Portugal because of the style of Sesshoumaru's breastplate. At the front, it curves forward a little like the bow of a ship. That's something Portuguese armour did lend to some styles C16th armour. However, it's my understanding that there were some native Japanese armour styles that came up with that frontal curve anyway - nothing to do with Portuguese. And anyway, even if his armour was influenced by Portuguese designs, that didn't mean he ever needed to travel to Portugal to get such armour. I had a good laugh at that one, as well.
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ladyjanegrey
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"I GOTTA keep it together!"
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Post by ladyjanegrey on Oct 3, 2009 21:44:00 GMT -5
Not to beat a dead horse (or maybe a dead dog; or was it a dead lion?). Anyway, I was looking through a nature guide to native trees of the Northwest US (where moi happens to reside), and I happened upon the entry for "drum roll" Cornus nuttalii, i.e. the Pacific Dogwood. It blooms in the early spring, and has very large, creamy white "blooms." I say that, because the "petals" are actually bracts around the real, very tiny, flowers. It is beautiful, to see the drifts of flowers on the trees, and I have to say it is one of my most favorite. Now you may ask, why would I be explaining all this? It is because when I looked closely at the picture, I realized the flowers had SIX (6) (yes, count them!) "petals!!!!!" I read the description which says that the flowers can have four to seven(??) bracts, with six normal. What is interesting is that all other dogwoods, including the Kousa from Japan, seem to only have four!!?? Of course, this made me think of the discussion about Seshoumaru's mon, the design on his garments. Now from what I have found, the typical mon, even when very stylized, is usually recognizable for what it is. And the petals of the Pacific Dogwood are more oval and not so roundish as Asian dogwoods, so it seems not so close. However, isn't it interesting that a six-petaled, native American DOGWOOD is the only object similar in shape to the design on his clothing? Heehee! ;D Just thought I'd throw that out there.
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Post by milareppa on Oct 5, 2009 17:04:49 GMT -5
Not only that, I found something very interesting by accident the other day.
I was always under the impression that Sesshoumaru's mon was vaguely based on the plum blossom. In part, my opinion was shaped by the colours on his kimono in the manga (not the anime, where his kimono is always red), in part because historically, plum was a more significant flower than cherry blossom, and a few other reasons.
I gave up this tact when it was pointed out to me that mon, even if styalised, tend to be representative - so a six-petalled plum blossom would be odd, since plum blossoms are not six-petalled.
Anyway, completely unrelated subject led me to the discovery that actually, plum-blossoms can be six-petalled. There's a place in China that is famous for its sacred plum blossoms - and the flowers on these trees are six-petalled.
As much as I hate to make a Chinese connection on his kimono on this thread of all places, it turns out that Chinese plum blossoms can indeed be six-petalled sometimes and are regarded as special when they do.
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ladyjanegrey
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Post by ladyjanegrey on Oct 10, 2009 23:16:25 GMT -5
Not only that, I found something very interesting by accident the other day. I was always under the impression that Sesshoumaru's mon was vaguely based on the plum blossom. In part, my opinion was shaped by the colours on his kimono in the manga (not the anime, where his kimono is always red), in part because historically, plum was a more significant flower than cherry blossom, and a few other reasons. I gave up this tact when it was pointed out to me that mon, even if styalised, tend to be representative - so a six-petalled plum blossom would be odd, since plum blossoms are not six-petalled. Anyway, completely unrelated subject led me to the discovery that actually, plum-blossoms can be six-petalled. There's a place in China that is famous for its sacred plum blossoms - and the flowers on these trees are six-petalled. As much as I hate to make a Chinese connection on his kimono on this thread of all places, it turns out that Chinese plum blossoms can indeed be six-petalled sometimes and are regarded as special when they do. That is interesting. You know, I think it's really strange, the way humans make such a fuss over things in nature that are unusual, or even rare. They end up making them lucky, and even sacred; a big bruhaha over something that usually a genetic flaw, that wouldn't survive in the wild. An update on my info. I was looking through the manga, and I noticed that the "flowers" on Sesshoumaru's kimono are not as, hmmm..., stylized, as in the anime. more like "cartoon" (haha) flowers, with round centers. Here is an upload of one of the pictures so you can see what I mean (I think): Attachments:
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ladyjanegrey
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Post by ladyjanegrey on Oct 10, 2009 23:21:48 GMT -5
Ugh. It didn't work very well. Soooo, if you look up the first page of chapter 15, it shows a picture of Sesshoumaru, with the pattern very clear on his collar.
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Post by milareppa on Oct 11, 2009 4:24:12 GMT -5
Heh. In that chapter you uploaded the picture from (was it Chapter 128), doesn't the flower have 8 petals at one point? (The third page, is the one I was looking at). It could well be that you're right. Someone told me recently that it's quite common for mythical flowers to appear on kimono that have no real-life representation - perhaps that's all that Rumiko Takahashi did. After all, if she didn't want to duplicate an existing mon, it must be difficult for her to find a flower that would suit Sesshoumaru's clan and yet not appear exactly like a real-life mon. Maybe she went the easy route and just made one up. We're weird like that.
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Post by ravenhallowryn on Oct 13, 2009 17:31:16 GMT -5
I have a feeling that she's made the connection between Sesshoumaru's armour and Portugal because of the style of Sesshoumaru's breastplate. At the front, it curves forward a little like the bow of a ship. That's something Portuguese armour did lend to some styles C16th armour. However, it's my understanding that there were some native Japanese armour styles that came up with that frontal curve anyway - nothing to do with Portuguese. And anyway, even if his armour was influenced by Portuguese designs, that didn't mean he ever needed to travel to Portugal to get such armour. I had a good laugh at that one, as well. Ah I see what you mean, still I doubt the design was even remotely portuguese and the mere mention of it did make me laugh. Also, I also thought of dogwood! Ok initially the first thing on my mind was "sakura. duh!" but after thinking it thru I noticed it didn't seem anything like a sakura design and the colors (in the manga) didn't add up so after some thought dogwood came to mind and I agree with ladyjanegrey here. But plum blossoms could also fit in (and yes in that aspect maybe the chinese connection isn't so far fetched and if you wish to add the IY movies into the mix then we can argue that the family did have exposure to the chinese which could have influenced the clothing style but I very much doubt that). And yes milareppa, we are wierd like that XDD
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ladyjanegrey
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Post by ladyjanegrey on Oct 15, 2009 19:09:33 GMT -5
Heh. In that chapter you uploaded the picture from (was it Chapter 128), doesn't the flower have 8 petals at one point? (The third page, is the one I was looking at). It could well be that you're right. Someone told me recently that it's quite common for mythical flowers to appear on kimono that have no real-life representation - perhaps that's all that Rumiko Takahashi did. After all, if she didn't want to duplicate an existing mon, it must be difficult for her to find a flower that would suit Sesshoumaru's clan and yet not appear exactly like a real-life mon. Maybe she went the easy route and just made one up. Yes I went back and looked, and you are right, the flowers have eight petals. Oh course, like I said before, the Pacific Dogwood could have more or less petals. Hmmm...., maybe we could makeup a "name" for the flower??!!Gosh, it has been so long since college, and I cannot find my book on scientific terminology. Urk. Try something like Hexapetalum canisdaemonus "Seshoumaruii." Or "Sesshoumaru's Six-petaled Dog Demon" flower. ;D
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Post by milareppa on Oct 16, 2009 15:47:45 GMT -5
That almost implies a domestically-bred variant, and unless we're saying that Rin's the inspiration for its creation... ... wait, we could say that, couldn't we? With that in mind then, how about: Crista inuyoukaia taishoium v. "sesshoumaru"(Sesshoumaru variant of the general subspecies of the dog-youkai species of family crest genus, lovingly nurtured by Rin.) Okay, silly five minutes over with. Honest. ;D
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